“Ramblin’ On” About Led Zeppelin II   Or I Got Blisters on My Eardrums!

Did you catch Train on The Howard Stern Show last week? The group performed a new, not particularly memorable single from their upcoming album and then at Howard’s request launched into a spectacular cover of “What Is And What Should Never Be” from Led Zeppelin II —an album originally released October 22nd, 1969.

For the mathlexic, that’s almost 45 years ago. So how ironic was it that at some point during Train’s Stern Show appearance, group leader and singer Pat Monahan mentioned Kisses on the Bottom (which he incorrectly called “Kisses on the Bum”), Paul McCartney’s homage to the formative songs the ex-Beatle grew up listening to?

Monahan incorrectly inferred from the standards album that McCartney was “out of touch” with what kids today listen to.

The album title is a line from Fats Waller’s 1935 tune “I’m Gonna Sit Right Down and Write Myself a Letter”.

The heart of the Lennon-McCartney writing genius arguably occurred between 1965 and 1968 or around 30 years after Waller sang a song written by Fred Ahlert and Joe Young.

So there was Monahan singing a 45 year old song complaining about McCartney singing one that was fresher in 1967 than “What Is And What Should Never Be” is today.

Does that make any sense to you? Maybe not. It does to me. Maybe to a twenty year old today, Led Zeppelin’s music sounds like what Fats Waller’s did to me when I was twenty, which was around the time Revolver was released. And I knew that song because we had a player piano and that was one of the piano rolls. It sure sounded ancient to me at the time. Ironically today it doesn’t sound quite as old.

These Led Zep reissues must not sound too old to a lot of people because as I write this, all three albums of really old music are on Billboard’s Top 10 album chart!

No doubt some oldsters are re-buying on CD hoping that they’ll sound better than the unpleasant-sounding 1993 CD releases, but clearly Led Zeppelin’s first three albums, forty plus years after first being released, have a younger generation’s attention.

I’ve been spending what might seem like way too much time comparing and dissecting various pressings of Led Zeppelin II almost 45 years after its debut as if it really mattered. Actually I think it does.

Perhaps “classic” rock from the ‘50s, ‘60s and ‘70s is becoming like long enduring “classical” music except that only the original recording counts and the interpretations to be judged are not different performances by different orchestras and conductors but rather different masterings of the same material. The same might be said of jazz from that same era.

The judgment to be made is not merely about which “sounds” best, but rather about which best communicates the musician’s musical and emotional intentions.

Train’s appearance made me realize how different today’s music scene is than that of the era during which Led Zeppelin held sway. Monahan made no effort to hide his real self behind a mystery affectation like, say, “The Thin White Duke” or “The Lizard King”. He was honestly being himself. He wasn’t trying to build a wall or create a persona.

True, Stern has a way of breaking down that wall but Monahan wasn’t even trying to create one. He talked about his golf game. The only rock star I can recall from the previous age willing to admit to being a golfer was Alice Cooper.

I have it on good authority that Bob Dylan is an avid golfer but he doesn’t want anyone to know, so covetous is Bob of his image. Just the thought of Bob Dylan standing on the first tee with a driver in his hands seems wrong.

Dylan plays golf but he covers his head and tries to disappear on the course. I doubt you’ll hear him talk about his golf game any time soon. Today’s musicians could care less about maintaining an air of mystery. That’s too bad because that era was fun, particularly for adolescents wanting to fantasize about a different reality. Of course today’s kids can more easily disappear into video games.

The music today is similarly lacking in oversized personalities compared to back in the 60s and 70s. Where are the larger than life giants? Where are the virtuousi? The guitar monsters? The new legends? Other than John Legend, who is a nice guy and not much of a legend. What happened in rock also happened in jazz. Where are the larger than life giants like Monk, Miles, Coltrane, Art Blakey and Mingus? There are none. Where are the guitar greats? The saxophone colossi?

There are very good jazz musicians and some very good rockers like Jack White but most are almost annoyingly introspective and purposefully smaller than life. Are there any like Page or Plant? Or even David Lee Roth? Or Monk? Or ( insert your fave here). Not really. Lady Ga Ga had it sort of going for a short time.

Which helps explain why Led Zeppelin still matters not just to aging boomers, but to young people looking for some musical entity bold, brash and big to look up to and get excited about.

Led Zep was a band of enormous gestures in an age of big ones. The name says it all: it was heavy, but it could soar. The group lifted a lot but made it their own (including for a while taking credit for songs they didn’t write).

They combined blues with rock, with folk, with psychedelia and with cartoonish, misogynist sex at a time when sexually cool hippies years before had rejected as “sexist” their brand of swagger once previously popular in the ‘40s and ‘50s. It’s why Elvis became not at all cool only to become so again after his death.

At a time when it was PC properly said as “let me caress your breasts”, Led Zeppelin was saying “Let me cop a feel off your titties, bitch!”

“You need coolin’ I ain’t foolin’” could just as easily have been sung to a car as a woman. In fact, the next gen’s Led Zep, AC/DC, sang “Shook Me All Night Long” (“She was a fast machine/She kept her motor clean) as if it was about a car. Queen’s Roger Taylor dispensed altogether with metaphor by singing “I’m in Love With My Car”—and he meant it!

The music on Led Zeppelin’s debut album can be heard as being drawn from Jeff Beck’s Truth album, arguably the first “heavy” album but by the second one, it was obvious that this band was riffing into the future with future proof swagger.

I chose to cover the second album first because for record collectors, it holds greater interest. There’s the legendary Robert Ludwig first cut that was quickly withdrawn from the American market, supposedly after it proved too hot a cut for Ahmet Ertegun’s daughter’s turntable.

There’s the equally legendary “plum label” UK original. It’s important to remember that though they were from the UK, Led Zeppelin was first signed to American Atlantic Records, which is why the original UK pressing says “Under License From Atlantic Records Corp, USA, Manufactured by Polydor Records Ltd.”.

Sitting here comparing the new reissue cut from 96/24 files with two original (but not RL) pressings, with the original “plum label” UK release, with a later WEA orange/green reissue, with the 2001 Classic Records reissue, with an 80’s era Japanese pressing, not to mention the execrable 1993 CD remaster and with 96/24 files can make one question one’s sanity and/or produce a “what the hell am I doing with my life?” moment.

Once you do the work though, the importance of it becomes clear—that is if you think the music is important, and I do. It’s clearly stood the test of time judging by the chart action and by how much fun it still is to hear, especially since the blues, once a pop staple (as opposed to Pops Staples), has been drained from today’s radio fare. Salacious fun has been replaced by mechanical, puerile sex

Hell, there are people who day in, day out sample wine, coffee, olive oil, you name it, the same way some of us sample pressing quality. This is no more or less important, particularly for people who love listening to recorded music.

So here’s what I did: first I played the new reissue straight through and rather than dissect it, I just let it wash over me at high SPLs. That’s what a big-ass, full range system is designed to do and that’s how I listened. And then I judged the experience without prejudice, though I had a pretty good idea of what the other versions would deliver.

Look, there are few albums in my collection that feature the kind of gross overload distortion obvious on this master tape (one would be Bill Evans’ and jJim Hall’s Undercurrent). I don’t think it was an accident. They wanted to push the limits and they did. They wanted a big-ass drum sound, searing, crunching guitars and psychedelic sound effects rivaling Hendrix’s (which Kramer also created) and they got them, but where the big dynamics should have dug in and taken the ride to Pike’s Peak, on this album they hit the wall and went into overload.

It’s important in this discussion to remember the tape’s age. It’s been more than a decade since Bernie Grundman had his go round and ten plus years in the life of a forty plus year old tape is a long time. We don’t know the tape’s condition either physically or sonically.

“Whole Lotta Love” immediately made obvious this reissue’s smooth frequency balance. That’s probably to what Page and Metropolis mastering engineer John Davis paid most attention.

The reissue on vinyl seemed to be a linear and honest accounting of a very familiar album. Nothing “stuck out” in a negative way. It didn’t sound like it had been cynically EQ’d and that was positive. At first I found myself saying “This has the smoothness and drive of a master tape.” I was impressed, though the spatial presentation seemed meek, particularly during the song’s “orgasmatron” break. The spatial swirling and what sounds like manual tape drag across the heads yielded only a small amount of the familiar three-dimensionality and spaciousness found on AAA releases. The individual cymbal hits in that psychedelic break lacked sparkle and the familiar precision-crackle. The whole event lacked mystery and then when Bonham machine guns the drums ending it, instead of an interruption eruption the changeover was anything but abrupt.

On “What Is And What Should Never Be” it became apparent, even without comparing to other versions, that the song’s overall musical intent wasn’t being fully communicated. That’s something tied as much to feel as sound, though the sound was tonally well balanced but spatially mashed together and lacking in detail delineation.

You can barely make out the flanging effects on Plant’s voice.

Again, the break lacks drama. It begins with that menacing, growling Page guitar lick eruption that should send shivers but just doesn’t. It doesn’t even erupt.The bass line was homogenized and the attack softened. Textures sounded bland.

Microdynamic gestures—very familiar ones—seemed to have been lost. This is a song recorded with an almost impossible amount of overload distortion that usually tears up the song’s fabric for the better but here it seems to have been patched up and smoothed over. The album’s grit and edge seemed worn down.

Switching to the Classic Records 180g reissue from 2001 produced “shock and awe”. I also have the 200g reissues but the 180s were good enough!

Classic claims to have mastered from the original two track tapes, not the EQ’d production master, which I assume is also what Davis and Page used (to be clear I mean the original not EQ'd production master), but these two masterings could not sound more different.

The Classics, mastered by Bernie Grundman, produce so much more detail and resolve so much more information, so much greater sense of three-dimensionality you almost wonder if both are sourced from the same tapes.

Grundman claims to have used very little EQ per Page’s advice, feeding the signal into a Haeco stereo tubed cutting amplifier driving a Westrex cutter head on a Scully lathe. Two things were immediately obvious: either the Classic’s top end had been jacked up somewhat, or the new reissue’s had been tamped down to produce flatter response. Or the tape’s top end has further receded into the magnetic ooze from whence it originally came.

In some ways I better liked the reissue’s smooth spectral balance but I much preferred the Classic’s enormous three-dimensional soundstage, far greater overall detail and especially its transient clarity that I didn’t think was caused by the slight high frequency lift. Instrumental separation was far superior as were instrumental timbres, especially (ironically) Page’s guitars, which go from bone crunching to gossamer, from hell to heaven and back on the Classic vinyl but are homogenized on the new reissue. Compare his solo on “Heartbreaker” on the new reissue with the one on the Classic reissue. One’s floating in greater space and has transient detail to spare. The other sounds good but doesn’t “sear”.

Here are two short 96/24 excerpts of the "Heartbreaker" guitar solo. One is the current reissue, one the Classic reissue. Do you prefer one over the other? If so please comment (give the files sufficient time to load).

Sample 1

Sample 2

Page shortchanges himself in my opinion with this mastering but more so John Paul Jones’s bass work. The extension is great—better than on Classic’s take— but textural details get lost and transient definition blunted.

Bonham’s work takes the greatest hit on this record though. When Bonham hits the cymbals harder you hear it on the Classic reissue. All of Bohnam’s microdynamic intent is communicated. On the new reissue the small dynamic differences that communicate intent blend into one level, quelling musical excitement. The cymbal’s shimmer and ring on the Classic losses its metallic edge on the reissue, though which you prefer might be system dependent. You get the picture.

Moving on to the legendary “plum label” UK original, finds a tonal balance that’s more similar to the new reissue than to the Classic reissue. However, the plum label original shares the Classic’s three-dimensionality and air, its transient excellence and its macro and microdynamic detail. Plus it has the new reissue’s ballsy bottom end but with greater definition. Its legendary status is well-deserved! Surprisingly, the later WEA orange/green pressing, which is a different mastering altogether shares much of the plum label’s greatness.

Forget about the ‘80s Japanese pressing (Warner-Pioneer P-10101A). It confirms my suspicion that many Japanese pressings of that era were cut on systems using 8 bit digital delay lines instead of preview heads. It’s flat and dead and decay is cut off at the knees.

The original CD mastering done by the late, great George Marino with Page supervising back in 1990 is basically unlistenable. Clearly not Marino’s fault. He was great. The problem was with converters of that time. It’s sad and hilarious to read on Amazon.com the praises of this mastering. It’s unlistenable especially if you try to turn it up. And if you can’t turn up Led Zeppelin what’s the point?

While we’re in the digital domain, if all you own are those CDs and you live in the digital world, do not hesitate to buy this as a 96/24 download. It sounds so much better than the original CD you’ll think you’re listening to a different recording, not a different mastering.

The post RL American original (1841 Broadway label) is not worth the vinyl it is pressed on. When Ahmet Ertegun ordered it recut, whoever did the deed slammed it hard. It’s dull, dynamically compressed and just a waste. It’s to be avoided! If that’s your reference, you have no idea what this recording really sounds like! Any reissue other than the Japanese will do.

I did get to hear an “RL” pressing last year at the home of Atlantic Records CEO Craig Kallman, who is easily the most dedicated vinyl fanatic probably on this earth. I think he’s got upwards of 750,000 records. Of course the RL crushed the original. It is worth whatever it costs for you to get one, if this record means that much to you.

The Deluxe Edition’s Second Disc

The second disc in the deluxe set contains rough mixes, backing tracks, and other sonic ephemera. The first thing you’ll notice is how much better sounding the opening mono work track of “Whole Lotta Love” is to the final version. It’s not even close! Otherwise the sound is good studio demo quality. If this is the best they could do for outtakes and unreleased, clearly the band didn’t waste time in the studio. You won’t learn much and it’s hardly necessary unless you are a Led Zeppelin fanatic.

Shades of Brown

The packaging is okay. What is the correct shade of brown for the cover? I have no idea. Every version has a different color brown. The English covers are dark. The plum label cover has no blue in the clouds and a yellowish sepia toned photo. The second UK pressing has blue clouds and greater contrast in the photo. The original America pressing has the best cover: nicely textured heavy stock, a coffee brown, blue clouds, and pleasing sepia balance (are you barfing yet?). Both the Classic and Japanese are close to the original American. The new reissue’s cover is very pale and inexplicably features a different rear cover that uses the front cover but tinted with blues and greens, thus breaking up the original’s front to back cover flow. Go figure.

Conclusion

The overall tonal balance of this reissue is probably as honest a rendering as you’ll hear. It sounds similar to the “plum label” original, so tonally it gets an “A”. Spatially and dynamically it gets a “B-“. The picture is rather flat, space is limited and I’d say some dynamic compression was applied. If not, it sure sounds that way. In terms of overall detail and transient precision it also gets a “B-“. However, compared to the 1990s CD it gets an “A”.

I also listened to the 96/24 download and if you live comfortably in both the analog and digital words, I’d buy the downloads and don’t bother with the vinyl, though it's very well pressed at Pallas. There’s little difference sonically between the files and the record. Don’t kill me for writing that.

That said, if this album is somewhat important to you and you just have to have vinyl, this reissue is good. On the other hand, if this record is really important to you, find an RL original, a UK “plum label” original, or even a UK WEA orange/green later pressing or the Classic Records reissue, but if you choose the Classic be prepared for a tipped up top and less than muscular bottom. However, the rest more than makes up for the truncated bottom end!

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COMMENTS
Jim Tavegia's picture

One thing that is true is that someone at every label needs to decide what in their vault is valuable before the master tapes disintegrate and get them copied to 24/192 as fast as they can. I know this could be a huge project, but it needs to be done and would easily be worth someone's time at $52K a year to sit in a room and do this until finished or someone else needs to take over. I can't imagine labels not considering something like this for every major artist they have signed, now or before.

They don't need to EQ it, or compress it, or limit it, just get them transferred for posterity's sake.

I'd take that job at any label in a heartbeat.

AnalogJ's picture

Bernie Grundman's reissues (and original masterings) almost always sound tipped up. He did the original Simply Red US pressings and they're VERY bright. Dynamic and with depth, yes, but bright.

Goochified1's picture

...but then got laid off from my job. Feeling like, at 51, I ought to be responsible and not unload $100+ on just three albums, I cancelled my vinyl order and ended up getting the deluxe (not box set) CDs. I A-B'ed the new CD of "II" to the '93 and I agree, it's a helluva lot better. So, with your opinion about the new vinyl, then, I feel better for cancelling my initial order. (That freed up $$$ to pre-order The Beatles mono vinyl box--I'm assuming I'll be working by September!)

Michael Fremer's picture
And you're putting your $$$ where the AAA lives.
boogieman's picture

If the high res downloads sound like the LP , why buy an LP that has been digitally sourced? How about comparing the 2014 reissue to the Japanese AMJY vinyl?

Michael Fremer's picture
I made that point. I do have an AMJY of Led Zep IV so when that comes around I will.
Mark Fleischmann's picture

My U.S. pressing has 75 Rockefeller Plaza on the label. Any better?

Michael Fremer's picture
Haven't heard one so I don't know. These things are variable. For instance there's a particular later pressing of CS&N that's legendary. Randy Well, who reviewed Nick Drake titles for AP turned me onto one and it is very, very good. Who can explain these things? It depends upon who was given the lacquer cutting job, what source he obtained and how much he cared.
labjr's picture

I thought the transfers were done at 24-192 and since they weren't gonna do them AAA, they would at least the cut the lacquers using the 192 files to give them an advantage over the 24-96 downloads. Shows they just don't care anymore or did they ever?

Michael Fremer's picture
They cut from 96/24 instead of tape. Metropolis I believe is certainly capable of that I think. We also don't know the condition of the tapes. But I do hope the "next wave" can be done AAA.
labjr's picture

I thought I read somewhere that the transfers were done at a higher resolution for future releases. Why not cut the lacquers from higher resolution files? To me, 192 crosses a threshold of realism that's like analog. Would've been nice if there was a reason to buy the vinyl.

As it is now, they'll be sharing the warehouse space with the Beatles stereo sets until they end up as cutouts on Overstock.com.

mikeyt's picture

Aren't the Diament discs the original CDs, not the Marinos?

Michael Fremer's picture
I have the Marino mastered box set…. didn't know about another...
AZ's picture

That Japanese pressing (P-10101A) is from 1976, not from the eighties. There was no digital delay in use at that time. But I agree with you, it's one of the worst sounding!

Michael Fremer's picture
For the info. I'm sure that Sony had DDL in the 80s…based on what some of the Dylan albums sounded like...
Martin's picture

What, like Empire Burlesque and Knocked out loaded?
That would explain a lot.

Mars10's picture

Buy them for the extras alone.

Zep never fails.

Mars10's picture

Spot on.

kozy814's picture

A terrific write up by Mike! I've had numerours US LPs (no UK Plums tho) and currently own just 2: The RL, which is the cheese - BIG bottom on that one, & the US George Piros -- my second choice. I will probably go out and buy this CD edition since all I own is the Japanese box with the Marino master, and that one never get any air...

StonedBeatles1's picture

I'm surprised that I liked file 2 better. To my ailing ears it was slightly louder and brighter (not necessarily better) but it also appeared to be more detailed, cleaner and had more air in the solo especially with the slight reverb or the sound of the room on the left channel. Better to my ears.

Michael Fremer's picture
I'll identify them soon...
StonedBeatles1's picture

After giving these anther list I decided to compare them to the new 24 bit FLAC download. File 2 sounds closer to the new 24 bit FLAC to my ears with the new FLAC being even brighter. I listened to the FLAc via Audirvana without an outboard DAC whereas I listened to the 2 posted files through my web browser so I guess it's not a fair comparison. What the hell do I know at this point??

One thing I do know. It's hard for me to discern between many digital releases unless I can A/B them immediately. That is unless I'm hearing a recent CD reissue of The Stones later period which is intolerable to my ears (i.e. Tattoo You).

But with old analog L's the difference is immediate to my ears, hence my German White Album vs Japanese. All of my Japanese LP's seem dead quiet but there's no bottom end o them with the German LP's being much richer and fuller (to my deaf ears). Same goes for my 80's VU Japanese pressing. Not as rich & full as many other copies I've heard (no matter how poorly it was recorded).

Steve Edwards's picture

be forewarned, if you download them into iTunes, the files are identified in the menu. I liked the Classic better; but, that is just through my Sennheiser HD 518s on my computer.
I have a K 50002 Made in UK copy of III, but my I & II are later US issues that, according to Mikie, "are not worth the vinyl they are pressed on." I just ordered a copy of I, will be eager to A B the two when it arrives.
Play on

Avalon0387's picture

Mike,
I agree with your reasons, but one thing that I've always said is that music back then was just better. Better written, better musically and the songs had hooks! Corny as it seems, you could sing them or hum (most of) them. What I hear today is just a bunch of notes strung together and called a song. Ugh. Of course, there are exceptions and some wonderful stuff being recorded, but it's too infrequent.
BTW, Jeff Beck's "Truth" was an album that got me through high school. Phenomenal.

thirtycenturyman's picture

I'm almost 34 so not really part of the young generation, but there's no lack of great music today. In fact, I would argue that there's more, given the fact that technology has provided a means for more artists to express themselves. Of course this increased quantity results in a lot of duds, but there really is a lot of great stuff out there.

That said, a lot of good music could be better if not for modern lo-fi digital recording and sloppy production, but that's another discussion.

By the way, if you only listen to your local rock/pop station, your probably not going to find the good stuff. I'm sure the same could be said in 1969, but I'm only guessing as I was -11 years old. Hey, take a quick glance at the billboard top 100 songs from 1969 and you'll see there's a lot of fluff. It wasn't all Zep, Beatles and Stones.

Michael Fremer's picture
I make that point to people all of the time. There is a lot of great music, none of which is on the charts but back then the charts were mostly dreck too. But much of today's great music is very 'sensitive' singer/songwriter/strumming…not very exciting and certainly mostly poorly recorded.
sunderwood's picture

For music to last people have to be willing to sit down in a chair and just listen. It doesn't make any difference what syle it is. I think the most popular song a year ago was Blurred lines. It was basically just a beat to dance to. I doubt if a lot of people are listening to it now, much less in 40 or 50 years.

Michael Fremer's picture
I agree. I heard this "songwriter" Sia on Howard Stern. She writes mesmerizing I don't know what to call them but they are not "songs" any more than prose without an into a set-up, exposition or resolution can be called a "story". She's talented but….
jack65's picture

First samples is much better imo. Better detail, dynamics and "realness".

daveming3's picture

The first album is the musicians' favorite, and as one, the most interesting aspect of LZ for me is the fact that the core of their rhythm (JP Jones & Bonham) were both Motown fanatics!

Michael Fremer's picture
So were The Beatles, especially the sound they got on those records---the bass and the levels. EMI simply couldn't manage...
Synaptic's picture

They both sound great, but that tipped up treble on file #1, especially on the cymbals, just grates on me. The new remaster has some serious 'thrutch', to use a term coined by our esteemed Mr. Bonham.

I've been enjoying my new copy of this immensely over the past couple of weeks. It's so much better than the old broadway-label copy i've been lugging around since 7th grade, it's comical.

atomlow's picture

This review is spot on.
I feel John Bonham's drumming doesn't come through very well on the reissues and his cymbals are metallic and hurt when they distort.
#2 sounds better to me by a long shot on the samples, very organic. #1 seems compressed and far back in the mix. I'm not sure if it's just the way Zeppelin I was recorded but the Classic Records pressing is orgasmic, I was hoping these reissues would be the same... I only felt a tickle on these zep II and III reissues but they sound a hell of a lot better than my 70's pressings.

hi-fivinyljunkie's picture

Generally would agree with the review though to most the loss in microdynamics is not such an issue when listening to the new pressing. I actually think the ballsy bottom and smooth top brings this new edition pretty close to a UK plum. I tried a Plum a few years ago against my Classic and prefered the later so plum was moved on at a profit. Never found the brighter top end of the Classic much of a problem. The high frequency info must have been on the tape 13 yrs ago. I think these are worth having even if you own the Classic version. BTW is the original master still usable for this title as photos of boxes suggest the Classic used a copy tape for this and original for the other titles?

Michael Fremer's picture
Where did you see tape box images? Classic claims to have used original un-EQ's masters but who knows? Many labels today claim they use masters but don't. Some use masters to produce CD cutting masters. Some claim to have 'mastering studios' but don't…. so who knows? I think I have photos here somewhere of the tape boxes. I will have to look...
J. Carter's picture

I have 4 versions of II. I have the original Barry Diament mastered CD, the Marino mastered on SHM-CD, a 24/96 recording of the RL vinyl and the new remaster (the 24/96 digital download and the vinyl but I haven't listened to the vinyl yet). The Diament mastered CD and the RL tonally and dynamically sound almost identical to me. I actually like the new remaster and the RL equally but for different reasons. The remaster vocals sound better to me but at the expense of a mid bass cut in comparison to the RL. The mid bass cut gives the new remaster a little less oomph but it still rocks. My system isn't old enough to hear a difference in soundstage depth and micro dynamics, they sound very similar to me. Unless you like spending huge bucks I think this new remaster is a great pick up and would not hesitate to recommend it to anyone not wanting to spend $100+ on this album.

Rudy's picture

I ended up with both the 24/96 downloads and the vinyl. While I haven't done my own formal review yet, I have to agree that the first thing I noticed was the far more natural tonal balance I heard when I first grabbed the 24/96 versions. (In essence, I don't find I'm gritting my teeth all the way through.) Once the vinyl arrived, I noticed that other than some faint "vinyl" noise (the norm), they sound nearly identical. Same first impression Mikey had.

Do I care that LZ II isn't like the RL? Well...this stuff is just fun to crank up and rattle the walls with! It's not one I'll sit and listen attentively to and worry about fine details (although they'd be nice to have intact). I heard a needle drop of the Classic version and to be honest, the jacked-up highs turned me off right away. I don't do "bright" very well. These LPs are fun to spin indoors but primarily, I listen to Zep elsewhere (outdoors, in the car, etc.).

Maybe it's the digital sourcing causing the loss of those microdynamics and soundstage? I have a few LPs that were digital sourced where I have original 60s or 70s pressings; there's an unconscious "something" that seems to be lacking in the digitally sourced versions. They tend to sound dimensionally flat and maybe a little soul-less, perhaps? Hard to put into words what I'm hearing. That is just my impression anyway. Maybe that's the drawback for finally having a higher-end turntable and cartridge? ;)

For another vinyl comparison, spin the Mothership box set. It's the 1990 mastering for sure, but the vinyl cut takes a little of that CD harshness away. And I stress...a little. It was a fun set, but it won't get many spins now with these new releases in the house--it's a noticeable difference. I can listen to these all day long.

The bonus tracks to me are a distraction. I purchased only the original LP versions of the albums, and am going to dump the 24/96 bonus tracks onto a backup drive and never spin them again. I'm generally not a fan of bonus tracks unless they are completed, genuine unreleased songs or b-sides. And even there, I don't like them interrupting the original album flow.

sdecker's picture

Michael, you've noted how good some vinyl can sound when mastered from recent, native 24/96 studio files, and you've done a number of needle drops to 24/96 (and CD-R!) with less than current studio-grade converters.

Do you believe most of the loss we're hearing on these reissues is the result of another dozen years on 45yo tape since the Classic reissues? In other words, if this set was done AAA, do you think we'd be suffering from the same master-tape age limitations?

Or are even the best ADCs and DSPs used for these reissues responsible for the majority of the loss of microdynamics, soundstaging, and detail that you report? If so, it seems the 24/96 downloads, or even the reissued CD, might be the equal, or better, choice :-O

Michael Fremer's picture
I thought the "Tommy" reissue from 96/24 by Kevin Gray sounded great and I didn't hear issues of transient softness, a loss of space, etc.… this Led Zep II not so much. Wouldn't everyone find it interesting (if expensive) to have a reissue cut both ways as a two record set? I think it would be very useful!
Bigrasshopper's picture

The question of tubes in the cutting chain is another factor that complicates comparisons. Do we know that all of Zep's original records were cut with tubes ? Did BG use tubes or solid state in cutting the Classic series ? Can tubes enhance aging tapes, or at any rate make a modern reissue sound more like an original ? Do the classic trade offs of tube vs solid state apply in driving the cutter head. Maybe not as significant a question as AAA vs ADA, it's not as if the labels are going to use tubes today, but it does make one wonder. I can think of at least one remastering facility that has put them to good use.

sunderwood's picture

Has anyone listened to the cd reissues? How do they compare to the vinyl ones?

Joe Schmengidy's picture

Barry Diament used the Ludwig mastered Zeppelin II tape (or a copy of that tape) to create the original CD issue.

And, from the stories I've been told from those who were there, the rather lackluster sound of the '90s remasters was due to Jimmy Page's instruction for increased midrange and louder presentation. George Marino, a fantastic mastering engineer, shouldn't be blamed for their sound. He was just making the client happy.

Michael Fremer's picture
Bob didn't master a tape. He got a tape from Atlantic and mastered to lacquer. Bob did not "master a tape". Diament may very well have used the same tape, but it's probably the same master tape everyone has used. I think I have picture of those tapes that I took at Bernie Grundman's. I'm going to look for them… and if I can find them I'll post the images. And yes, George shouldn't be blamed for the results there and I certainly didn't.
bdiament's picture

Hi Michael,

You are correct. The tape I was given to use was exactly the same tape Bob was given to use and everyone else was given to use in subsequent years. (That is, it was *not* a tape made by Bob.)

To my knowledge, it was a flat, 1:1 transfer of the original mixes. Of course, there are as many ways to make a "flat, 1:1" transfer as there are engineers to do them, so I have no idea how faithful (or not) it was to the original mixes.

What I was told was the original tapes were lost and what Atlantic had was it. It was claimed in some quarters that the original tapes were used for the early '90s remasterings but in fact, the same tapes were sent to Sterling (perhaps because those were the only tapes Atlantic had).

If the masters have in fact been found, I'm surprised that wasn't a story in itself.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.soundkeeperrecordings.wordpress.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

Michael Fremer's picture
Great info Barry....
todd95008's picture

All the interview's with Jimmy Page I have seen state that they started with 24/192k transfers. What source confirms that the 24/96k files were used to cut the vinyl ??

Some things that make me believe these are from a 192k source.
I have the new vinyl of Zep I & II as and compared them to the new 24bit/96k files. I think the vinyl sounds a tad better but my pressings (P-USA) are not that quiet. Also the new vinyl is slightly less compressed Vs the 96k files but both are more compressed Vs older versions (confirmed on the Dr database).

I have never heard the Diament CD's (from 1990) but have the page/Marino CD's (from 1994).
On Zep I the Page/Marino CD has the channels reversed so this could have also been something other than the master ??

I also have 24/96k rips of the classic 45rpm road box.
These blow everything else away but can sometimes be a bit bloated on the bottom and harsh on top..
the new masters are good if you don't have anything else but IMHO could have been much better if Jimmy Page (who is deaf as a doornail) was not involved...

Cassius's picture

Thanks for bringing it Michael. I love the humor, balls and smarts of this piece. To those that just want to know is X better than y but don't enjoy the ride, your missing out. No one is going to always agree with every postion or shoot out, but when you bring the passion and take a stance it makes for a much more enagaging and enjoyable read.

About the reissue series

Based on my experience with the new LZ I. I shared similar feelings: namely this new set is great for what it is, but when it came down to it Bernie's Classic and the Monarch CC/CC pressing done by George Piros outperfrormed the new one. I am happy that a respectable enjoyable copy of THE classic rock album is widely avaialbale. It's a helluva a version for new converts at a reasonable price, but what we all know is when we listen to our ears and souls you can't get AAA sound from even a (high res) digital source. The decay, warmth, crispness of the master tape is still lost even when done at a high level. One exception is the clear Stones stuff (esp Beggars & Let It Bleed) that play shockingly close to my unboxed UK Decca Originals.

For those of us with Classic, RL and Peckos and Piros pressings this series is not essential, but is defiitely welcome.

gettingintovinyl's picture

I just finished Side 1. I'm not an expert on this album on vinyl. I've been "ok" with the cd for years and just really getting into vinyl and tube systems and hi-fi the last 2 years. I have an old beat up orange and green label American copy that I bought just so I could have this album without spending a lot of money. I haven't compared the new one to that yet, but man, it the drums are PUSHED to the limit just like you said. It's like they wanted to get distortion on the drums. Of course that's all fine and dandy for early 70s radio, but after converting it to digital and then back to vinyl it's not especially pleasant loud, which is how I want to hear it. And when I hear that kind of distortion (maybe distortion is a bad word) it makes me question my system - which I'm always questioning and wanting to improve anyway... Thanks again for your insights and for making me want to buy the "Classic" which looks to be about $200 on ebay.

green circles's picture

The artwork on the single LP version is fine, the weird blue/green back cover is only on the 2 disc version (and also on the bonus LP inside the mega box).

I've seen some old UK's with that same faded-brown color, and so overall I'd say they did a good job on the artwork.

That said, I agree 100% on the sound, it's just not wide open and expansive the way the Classic is. I'm glad I picked up all the Classic Records' LZ reissues back when they were new. They came out just as I was getting back into vinyl, and it was no brainer.

Paul Boudreau's picture

"No doubt some oldsters are re-buying on CD hoping that they’ll sound better than the unpleasant-sounding 1993 CD releases, but clearly Led Zeppelin’s first three albums, forty plus years after first being released, have a younger generation’s attention."

It's been interesting to me for awhile now that today's youth is interested in music that came out 40-50 years ago. It's as if I had been a fan of Louis Armstrong's Hot 5s & 7s and early Ellington in 1968!

I am very happen that there is that interest and it occurs to me to ask whether anyone thinks there's a link between it and the vinyl resurgence of late, which you could say has been driven mainly by today's youth. Hmm...

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