Can I Have My Money Back?

"get over it and move on."

we can put this largely illusory controversy to bed. Lacquers don't magically self-destruct in a matter of weeks, and playing them occasionally with a good 'table and cart seems relatively harmless as well. If you are concerned about the prospect of having them deteriorate the remedy is easy, don't buy them!
Just one point about this post by Michael-a 3% defect rate is nine per 300 discs, not one per 300.

You wrote: "I have no problem with him being a "retail critic". His mistakes are honest like the one he made about the Craft Way Out West, but that video makes clear he's still happy to lay out the unfair dirt about me and from the comments during the stream, his acolytes, keying off of his comments are happy to demonize me, most of whom have no idea what part I played in there even being a record business for Mike to be in today. That's annoying but in some ways that's actually rewarding.

You are obviously hurt when people question your integrity as a reviewer. But vinyl was alsof saved by the dance/DJ community that still wanted those 12-inches. People do not really care whether you saved vinyl these days. They just want to tell you that you get expensive records for free. Listen, if ERC was a Japanese company we would not be having this discussion at all. Each copy sent out would be visually perfect and packaged sans pareil.

Part of this discussion sounds like some new version of Human League's (or Chia pet's) song, "Don't You Want Me."

The fact is that, while I don't always agree with Michael on some of his viewpoints, I do respect the fact that he has spent the majority of his life on the vinyl crusade. And, while I watch Mike Esposito's YouTube channel to see what is coming up in the record world, I take his majority of 'advice' with a grain of salt. Another YouTube post called Michael and Esposito 'two titans of the vinyl industry'. I'm sorry but I wouldn't consider Esposito a 'titan'. He's a record store owner/collector who loves his vinyl and is entitled to his opinions, but I wouldn't consider him an expert in anything other than buying and selling records. This may piss a lot of his defenders, but the truth hurts sometimes. I was given good advice by my father when I was a boy: "Listen to others but make up your own mind". I have followed that advice and have become incredibly successful due to my father's wisdom.

is not that ERC has defective issues. It's that they ship these defects. Mike E. seems to be saying that for $500+ ERC should inspect it more carefully and weed out the defects instead of making the consumer find the defects and be burdened with the hassle of doing returns. For $500+, makes sense.

If Chad hadn’t made use of the live session time for some sales pitch, I’d say he could’ve used this time better ;-) Makes me think of the old joke here:

http://www.m.trolino.com/someone-is-wrong-on-the-internet-104222

My respect for you as a Person, not a Vinyl Expert, is slipping fast. Just let it go, man. This is the worst dead-horse beating I've seen in ages. I don't think you're having the effect you intend to have. The fight's over... Leave the ring...

I've watched the back and forth with some level of amusement. At the risk of perpetuating the argument, on the one hand, I'm not sure who Mike E is protecting by complaining about lacquers in general, and specifically ERC. We vinyl loving audiophiles never left vinyl. Despite our love of black licorice, it was moribund. That is, until younger boys and girls discovered vinyl again - not only buying records, but opening record stores. Thank you RSD. The fact is that, I dare say, most of those shoppers don't have a clue what a lacquer is. They aren't buying lacquers. They like the look, feel, and sound of vinyl. Those consumers are not ERC's market. End of story. Likewise, my guess is that Mike E's customers are not buying lacquers, either. Who are buying lacquers? People who, one, have coin in their pockets, and two, have long term experience in the lacquer world. They hardly need Mike E. educating them about lacquers.

The proper analogy, I humbly submit, is that between a golf ball and an egg. The golf ball is the vinyl. The egg is the lacquer. Both will last a long time, perhaps even forever, with proper care. The egg simply requires more care to last longer than the golf ball. But the golf ball can and will degrade as well. So, as to that issue, I would agree with Mike F.

On the other hand, I have to agree with Mike E. that, given a $500+ price tag, and a limited run of 300 units (I'm still unclear if that 300 unit limit applies to those they send reviewers), they should be able to personally examine each unit prior to departure. I expect a limited run high end audio company to examine their widget prior to shipment more so than I expect Pioneer to examine each receiver prior to shipment. Let's say it takes thirty seconds to examine whether a record is off center, has bubbles, etc. That's what, a few hours at most? Seems doable to me.

Then on the other hand, having read Mike F. for many years, I am fully confident that he calls it like he sees it, and is not swayed by the product he receives for free. Were free recordings leading to compromised opinions, then reviewers for Downbeat, Jazziz, Goldmine, Rolling Stone, Bluegrass Today, Living Blues, etc. would likewise be compromised. I've read enough negative reviews in Downbeat, for example, to know that freebies don't lead to compromised opinions. I wished Mike E. had not gone there. That reminds me of George Constanza's "I slept with your wife" remark.

On the other hand again, I'm pretty sure that Mike E.'s comments did not put any kind of a mark on the lacquer business. Let's hope this mountain goes back to the mole hill from whence it came.

From the Supersense website:

How durable is my MASTERCUT?
Please be prepared that due to the super soft and fragile surface of your Mastercut which is responsible for its unique rich and warm sound, the noise level will slowly but steadily increase over time with every magic listening session you perform (even if you are super careful with your new favorite record). We like to compare this to the wonderful wrinkles around your eyes getting more characteristic each and every time you laugh.
In order to dive into the true magic of your MASTERCUT over and over again, please read all the FAQ sections regarding handling, storage, very carefully.

You just couldn’t move on. You had to try and get the last word in. The ONLY thing you’ve proven here, is what a small, petty, little man you are.

If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there does it make a sound?

Some people just can't leave things alone. Especially when they are on the back foot.

Michael, step back and look how you are acting. Is there anyone in your life to pull you aside? ERC does not need you to defend them.....everything sells out in 2 hours. Your legacy as a vinyl advocate is set in stone, don't ruin that. Everyone knows you have been an audio "insider" for many years and have contributed greatly to the "return of vinyl". 98% of vinyl listeners have no business (financially and by the systems they have) buying $500 record albums. In -Groove Mike gets emails from people with basic systems asking about these expensive releases. Mike was just pointing out his experiences and how that $500 can be better spent. Just like I would have no business buying $300,000 speakers only to hook them up to a Pioneer A/V receiver. Please just drop it....take a break.

Max Weber was a pioneering economist and sociologist who advanced the theory of “marginal value” or “marginal utility,” recognizing that individuals may assign a value to a good or service which bears no rational relationship to the item’s scarcity or utility. I guess the most famous examples are the Rosebud sled from Citizen Kane, the Maltese Falcon, the Holy Grail, or Hitchcock’s concept of the Macguffin. Imagine the flame wars on forums if we knew what was inside that glowing suitcase in Pulp Fiction. The point is, Weber believed various social but also subjective forces give certain items status and value—thus though in 1979 the Chevrolet Caprice was very similar to a Cadillac Seville, the Cadillac was widely perceived as the more prestigious model. I think Mike from In Groove is caught in a sociological trap, unable to separate the status signs of something like an ERC reissue from its inherent sonic and material qualities. It’s a lame sour-grapes attitude, as silly as someone who remarks “5000 dollars for a custom suit? I get my suits at Jos. A Bank for 200 bucks on sale, and I look fine!” or “My Hyundai will get me there just like your Bimmer!” I call it a sociological trap because if you carry In Groove dude’s argument to its logical conclusion, we come to the realization that we don’t “need” even a single record—which would be sad for him, making lame videos in an empty record store.

All three involved in the video have their expert opinions. I say "expert" because each has earned that title due to their involvement and access to good equipment and various vinyl pressings. And each has valid points. Yes, for the money, Chad's pressings are worth every penny. Yes, Esposito is correct in that $500 records, of which only 300 are made, SHOULD be hand inspected and signed off on. Now, some seam splits may occur in shipping, and one has to realize that. And Fremer is to be believed that his lacquers have NOT diminished in sound quality over the years. Are these men without fault? Of course not. Each has made mistakes over the years. For example, Mike E claims that his shootouts of Sgt. Pepper leads to the best being the old mofi UHQR. Really? Not in my opinion or that of many others. And Fremer talks about how he dislikes the S&G One Step of BOTW. No master tape he says. While that may be, my 1A pressing in no way comes close to the One Step. So while I can occasionally disagree with their opinions, I realize that indeed they are human. They still continue to do us a great service in vinyl land, and I wouldn't want to be without any of them, even Tom Port of Better Records (should have had him in on the video. LOL.) Time has shown that Tom has been correct many times in his defense of originals sounding superior. Especially original Red shaded dogs of RCA classical pressings. Go ask Steve Hoffman. Anyway, I thank all of these men for allowing vinyl explode and giving me the real joy of music that digital just can't equal.

I'm no expert at reading such things but there are a few things I have to ask about. The x axis should represent frequency and appears to represent frequncy although the numbers are not given any designation such as "hz" while the Y axis is clearly designated in db.

So my problems with these charts. And any expercts please feel free to fill me in on this if I am wrong.

1. Where is everything after 200Hz? Aren't most of not all the issues above 200Hz?

2. Why is there a 70 db drop from 20Hz to 200Hz? Seems like a very unusually high drop off in spectral content

3. Why is there a massive amount of signal between 0-20Hz? That seems like a really big problem

If I am reading it wrong, anyone feel free to correct me. Like I said, I am no expert on reading spectral analyis graphs.

People should buy what they want, when they want, provided they can afford it. I have a ton of duplicate (and triplicate) Bowie records, just for the sake of it. Some of them are even picture discs, and while they don't sound as terrible as some folks claim, they don't sound tremendous either. Now, if you hate Bowie, you'll make a sassy comment, but if you don't, nobody will make a big deal out of it. I have easily 500$ in duplicates, and I could trade it for a Coltrane lacquer, and hell would freeze over?

Let's stick to the facts - They are more sensitive than vinyl records and you need to treat them right. Same as R2R. Who owns them or not should be an individual decision - kudos to Mikey for pointing out that they can get fungus, and you need to clean them, etc... this is useful info for someone like me that didn't knew this. After this point, why would an angry shop owner decide what I buy or what I don't buy?

did anyone else notice how uncomfortable he got when Fremer accurately pointed out that his $500.00 tapes were 4th generation and on a tape stock that has no track record for longevity?

But everyone is cool with Chad selling those tapes and some people are already convinced that a 4th generation analog tape is going to be the ulitmate version without having done any careful listening comparisons.

It's been amusing, at the very least, to watch this debate go back and forth. It's kinda some bourgeois nonsense, not gonna lie, but who am I kidding... I say this because I will never, ever, ever be in the position to drop that kind of money on a single pressing of anything.

I'm sure they sound good. I'm also certain that doing an extensive level of QC on every single copy, while possible, would not be the wisest use of anyone's time. "Shit happens," as they say. And if you are one of the unlucky couple of people who get a defective copy... a fraction of a fraction of record buyers who, I would assume, have been buying records for quite some time... is it really that hard to a) reach out to ERC, while b) not being a dick, to c) request a replacement?

I understand Mike F's need to point these things out, as -- whether you like it or not -- he is considered an authority. I understand how frustrating it is to try to combat flagrant misinformation, only to have the other party dig their heels in deeper.

But, as stated, this is a problem I will never have. It's been fun, fellas!

The cacophony of all the shark jumping going on right now about lacquers and 'master tape reel to reels' is almost enough to drown out the joy of being a vinylphile.

I am highly pleased ERC exists, it's a bespoke record made with fine craftsmanship. What's not to like?

I am highly pleased MF has some fine sounding lacquers. However, it can seem a bit like bringing in a few people who survived car wrecks despite not wearing seat belts as evidence that seat belts are not important. A surviving or long lived lacquer is an anecdote, not data. I think we are arguing about two different beasts: lacquers made to transcribe and listen to for sonics vs. lacquers made for 'working purposes' in the pressing process. We are likely comparing oranges to tangerines....close, but different.

I am highly pleased some people like their 'master tape' reel to reel copies, which are "sourced from a copy of the original analog master tape." Fourth generation, third generation....still not bad! If you are attracted, Caveat Auditor and start your party!

So what if Richie is gone and Fonzie is jumping sharks, it's still Happy Days. Audiophiles have always sought validation through fiscal recklessness, this is nothing new! As my old friend Frankie said about getting too worked about Hi Fi, "Relax, don't do it, when you wanna sock it to it."

I loved Chad K's comment after Mike E's asking about possibly reissuing Alice Coltrane titles...."If you want that you start your own record label and do it"...or words to that effect...That pesky hipster Alice Coltrane fascination rears it's head again!!!!

A price of $500 for a new LP includes a tacit expectation of perfection or close. This is an extreme luxury good, of an esoteric product, that only a finite number of individuals will experience. While $500 may seem like a small price in the great market of excess, it is an extreme outlier in the world of single LP reissues. Personal inspection of each LP should be included in the sale. An analogy can be made to expensive equipment purchases- many manufacturers require their dealers to personally deliver and install the item. This cost is built into the price, and the customer expects this level of service precisely because they are buying at the top of the market.

As for RtR reissues- it is hard to say. While a 4th-5th gen tape copy generally results in an inferior LP pressing, has anyone really investigated the degree of sonic degradation in a tape that comes with each successive copy ? A carefully made RtR tape at 15 or 30ips is demonstrably better than an LP made from the identical source. While I am not a potential buyer of a "new" reissue tape for $300-$500, I do have experience with RtR tapes. I have a restored high end deck and have purchased many older tapes from back in the day. All were commercially produced, and sound spectacular. Even at 7.5 ips, many sound better than their LP counterparts. Some Broadway cast recordings are shockingly good. What generation was the source material for these commercially produced tapes ? To me at least, the jury is still out regarding the relative (and possible) quality of new RtR reissues.

This is my message sent to the In Grove.

"Sadly Due to the way Mr. Esposito has behaved in his "discourse" with Mr. Fremmer on the lacquer issue I have unsubscribed from the In Groove's email updates and will no longer be spending money at The In Groove.

Having differing opinions is fine, how one treats others who's opinions differ from yours, and being open to listen without making personal attacks, speaks to ones character.

Unfortunately this type of behavior is indicative of the current state of the pathetic American cultural/political discourse.

I choose not to spend my money with those who's behaviors is not worthy of respect."

These fights are getting old, not to mention wasteful?
The facts are the facts, let them be. There will always be some dissatisfied, disillusioned and disingenuous troll coming along to cause chaos, especially if the subject has any objectivity and is peaceful by nature, such as music.
Some months ago I had an arrogant clown attack me on video after I wrote a cordial yet scientific private email to him correcting some stuff about record care he was putting out that was obviously in error (Windex and shoe cleaning brush on records? Really?) I would have laughed if he was messing around, but he claimed it is his "goto" method and claimed the results are better than some proper methods! He is also a record dealer! So while I was cordial in my email, he decided he was being attacked and went on video attacking me personally claiming I had no backing or knowledge (in spite of the fact I included some in the email).
Fortunately the guy doesn't have many followers or viewers. It was suggested that I file suit, but to me it is not worth the mess and I don't own a business or have a YouTube channel or even go near social media period, so what would be the point? If some folks want to ruin their records and follow bad advice, let them, sad as that may be. I studied the proper care of records for myself and to share with those who care and want to know to enjoy their records for decades.

The argument about "the records fall apart as you play them" is the same tired old fallacy about "every time you play a record you take a year off it's life" or the old favorite: "records wear out after 10 plays and they don't last". Those argument were for vinyl records, not lacquers!
I only buy used records and by used I mean $1 to $10 tops, all genres. I grew up listening to records in the late 60s and early 70s. I have records from the dollar bin that are 60 years old and sound like they are being played for the first time. The music I listen to is very limited in "new pressings/reissues" anyway. To me personally, the new reissues are not worth the asking price. The feel of the original pressings also are more meaningful to me. I also have CDs of more recent artists or digital genres or what have you.
Anything will last longer if you take care of it.

should never, ever be allowed to moderate anything ever again. What a complete disaster.

In Groove Mike gets emails and people asking about new releases all the time. Mike is a collector/retailer which is normal. The gist of what Mike was pointing out is for $500, look elsewhere if you want audio nirvana. Mike did not say don't buy if you collect etc. The turn to dust comment was an exaggerated expression to make the point why the lacquers are not a wise decision for general purchase for sound quality purposes. That is the point Mike was making. Nothing more. For $500 you could buy 10 (or more) Analog Production albums and have much better proven reliability. For the "must have everything collector" nobody is saying do not buy if you can afford it. Heck if this were Dark Side of the Moon...I would buy one.

After having viewed both Mike's videos the most apparent thing to me is that they are both passionate in what they do.Both are right and both are wrong. So when passionate people get into it, both believing they are right, chances are their vision perspective of other viewpoints is tunneled.

To MF, Why do you get upset by ME questoning your partiality when you get free product? I along with most of your followers have seen equipment reviews of yours saying you received a discount for equipment or cables,etc. I haven't seen a flood of backlash from your followers that this is a Howdy Doody don't or that your diminished by doing it. So, why would you be surprised when ME fires the freebie shot across your bow?When passionate people try to defend their position they sometimes make lame comments. You have been doing your thing for so long is this thrown gaunlet unexpected? Like the comment, "All salesmaen are crooks"-deal with it.
Re: ERC , ME had a bad experience with 4 issues. I don't think he was out of line to vent his disappoinment. I liken it to being a kid at Christmas time and getting a new bicycle only to find it had two flat tires. We all know things happen but I feel you went a smidge overboard not relating to his "personal" frustration. In this instantance were you right to defend ERC, yes. Was he right to vent abour ERC, yes.

Re:ME, you were totally out of line thrashing Supersense. It would be one thing to comment about their product after a year or two on the market, but projecting that it will be a waste of money based on your experience with your laquers is not right. Maybe they have a different, better way of producing a "stronger" product. I don't know. Finally, like most of the above responders have suggested-move on.

What was the name of your possum?

Oh yeah, whenever I get $500, I like to spend it on a disc that I know is already defective and will wear out faster than a regular LP release. Alternatively, I like to set 6.14 x 2.61 inch pieces of paper with Ben Franklin's picture on fire just to watch them burn.

This thread indicates one more reason why I'll never buy another LP, ever again.

some of which appear to be quite old, surely AS has test played them before putting them up for sale.

Any interested buyers here?

I have to say, I LOVE IT that Mikey does not censor any comments. I really enjoyed reading the vitriolic chain between pbj and analogscott. I also love it that Mikey is unable to constrain himself in writing, what is it, the third or fourth post on this whole bespoke lacquer tempest on a turntable.

The reason this is significant, and the reason is makes analogplanet a destination site, is that all the other audiophile destinations are so hung up on "civility" (hi, Chris), which is just another way of saying they're gonna censor anything that the site's major stakeholders don't like. (That's even the case on a place that's not that far away from here.)

Anyway, all of this is a long way of say, please do keep letting it all hang out. BTW, I personally am in the camp of, I don't think it's a wise spend to piss away beaucoup bucks on something which will certain degrade if dropped on the floor. I can understanding buying $500 reel to reel tapes (even if they are by definition third gen copies) but lacquers? Er, no.

I just wanted to comment about the good looking coatis hanging out with the freaky looking dude.

Both made valid points, thank you. I think Mike went a bit too far suggesting Michael's ERC reviews were biased because he receives review samples. If I try to be generous I could see Mike’s point that some unconscious bias might result in overlooking “inexcusable” blemishes or whatever on a cover of such an expensive record, but the bigger picture that Michael has been communicating in my understanding is that this is a boutique product, produced with great effort and expense to deliver something unique which may only appeal to a minority of people but still has a right to exist! Inform and let the consumer decide. If I had listened to the cynics when the first MoFi One Step was announced I wouldn’t now own what might be the greatest sounding record in my collection. If everyone had listened to the cynics we might not have the big runs of One Steps and UHQR’s many of us now enjoy. About the lacquer, it seems unanimous amongst the experts that they can sound amazing but are fragile. It’s not for me I think, the risk v reward of shipping to the other side of the world to a warm climate doesn’t work out for me, but I’m glad it exists and good on Supersense for doing this. We’re always learning and Gary Salstrom's contribution about temperature sensitivity made a lot of sense. I also appreciate Mike’s point that I'll sleep fine by getting a great AP pressing instead without worrying about lacquer degradation (whether that’s likely or not, I think everyone agrees it’s possible depending on many factors). Audiophile HiFi writer and vinyl evangelist who likes to explore the boundaries meets audiophile and hard nosed record store owner who has to deal with the returns. Regular team up on the cards?

I re-read Ben Sisario's fine NYT article about ERC.
In this regard I would make two observations.

1 - The reporter went to Michael Fremer's house to do the listening (lucky him). The NYT would probably not have allowed him to buy the records from ERC, even if they had been available. ERC does not lend records to journalists, it gives them away, which is strictly forbidden by the NYT's journalists' code of ethics: they cannot receive products sent by brands for free without sending them back.
https://www.nytimes.com/editorial-standards/ethical-journalism.html#rule...

I think that this is the kind of journalistic ethics to which In The Groove pertinently refers.
Everyone has the right to think what he wants, for my part the fact of receiving these records as a gift does not automatically imply a biased opinion, sequence is not necessarily worth consequence, but the question can be asked rightly.

2- About the huge prices of ERC, the strategy exposed in the article is interesting. In short, Pete Hutchison is selling more than a carefully manufactured product: he is selling the experience of listening to records with the technology of the recording era, that of the "golden age" of recording (1965), a bit like a trip back in time. The storytelling is classically based on Hutchison's biography of his father's recovered records, lending an emotional credibility that everyone can relate to. Of course, the argument is short-lived when it comes to a White Stripes record :)
But it is nevertheless on this experience that he establishes his brand, by strongly dissociating himself from the audiophile market that he qualifies as simple "listeners who listen with their ears", whereas his product is listened "with the heart" :)
Hutchison has also understood that the vinyl market was moving towards audiophile products from which it is necessary to distinguish itself by offering something that is "anti-generic".
By drawing a line between audiophiles and its customers, it places itself above the rest, on a segment inaccessible to its competitors.
Pure marketing.

the Blonde on Blonde cover picture. All blurry and the wild hair.

Except Dylan had a pretty girl on his arm.
Not gonna comment on whos the bigger genius, but Mike did save vinyl so there is that.

But seriously folks, more opinions makes for a more informed choice yes?
So glad you and Mike S. did the video with Chad and agreed to disagree.
Cheers.

2 people debating something they love so much and have great passion for. Both out there defending people like me so that I can have a good education on a product. I think the conversation is an important one. Is it worth spending the extra $ or not? Quality is of utmost concern here. As a consumer..I expect my product to be as advertised. Example I recently purchased a reissue that cost approx 5x the cost of the average release. It was noisy..the inner sleeves were split and the outer box was flimsy. I must say that I was upset. Where I live that is alot of $$. The marketing basically implies that the release is the best. So when you get something that is not that...you feel ripped off. Now...the company did replace the inner sleeves and the records relatively quickly..which is a good thing. I will say that I will think twice before I order another one...because it was below the quality I expected. Now If I pay 500$ and this happens...I would be VERY upset replacements or no. So. We have 2 sides of the story here. The audio guru and lover of all things vinyl..and the retailer who has to deal with returns and angry customers. The above scenario is important because quality control is of utmost importance. But...when there is a problem it should be resolved with no questions asked. Thats it. If you plan to sell 300 of these then make 330 to cover possible problems. Then again it is always better to solve the issue before the product goes out. Why is it that my vinyl collection prior to 1990 is flat ..relatively noise free...I have 1 warped album from the 70s..but that is it. Granted as the 80s came to a close it seems records became more and more noisy. Now in the day and age of the new vinyl revolution I have had to return about 15% due to warpage/noise/scratches. 10years ago most local retailers would not even accept a return! Now most do accept returns because they know what quality issues are out there. Do I stop buying vinyls? Nope. Will I give that expensive product another chance..eh maybe. So Mike I agree with you that the lacquers sound amazing..even on my cheapo surround sound family room system- the Who sounded like the WOW! Would I pay a rent payment for that...maybe..would I be really upset if it was messed up..yes. Would I be happier if the above situation happened ..yes..would I buy it again ...eh.

Yes indeed...."Vinyls" yet again....Please consider spending your hard earned cashes on cheeses...or underwears....

"Oh Michael, oh Jesus. You know I'm not to blame. You know my reputation, for playin' a good clean game." -from Turn That Heartbeat Over Again.

I read the article but found no mention of Tim Buckley and the weird-looking dog on his shoulder

Methinks thou dost protest too much.
For some reason your defense (and offense taken from Mike's comments) of ERC is over the top. Makes one think that maybe Mike is right about the free records. I believe you're honest, but the optics are not good and getting worse the more your argue.

AS far as ERC goes, Mike is right on. For a company that makes only 300 discs it is totally reasonable for there to be zero errors. They're hand made, as you say, which means there should be no problems that reach the customer - even if they have great customer service and replace the problems. Then there's the price. Are their records more than 10 times better than an AP release? No way you can say they are.

Anyway, I do greatly respect your knowledge and opinions. And I am grateful to Chad and you two for doing the YouTube session. Now, please, move on...

i dont own an ERC LP... i probably will never because i can barely afford a MoFi let alone a 1 step... and when i asked why do we need it i was responded with "well people are buying it, so why not", which doesn't work since by that logic NFTs and MP3s are perfectly fine and don't deserve criticism.

i personally just don't enjoy the extreme idea of spending so much on one LP when there are even bigger issues on the shelf, such as the issue of just cranking out LPs through a single stamper until its worn (i feel Gz is doing this a lot), or the heavy inflation going on in the pandemic due to high demand (the weeknd selling a 2LP for 50 USD despite JPEGmafia giving you 3LPs for 30), or even more intense analysis paralysis for those like me who are really interested in getting the best they can at the price but cant because of magazines giving different opinions on "best for price" or the "best copy"

also i think the real issue with the seam split is that for a record that costs THAT much you expect as professional a packaging as possible, maybe ship it in the rice sleeve and paper but OUTSIDE of the jacket (that stops seam splits and often stops warping), a part of why people spend so much money on things is the unboxing an experience, which does matter when you are sinking so much

Anyone can call records by any name they wish...Saying or writing "Vinyls" does stamp the person as a recent convert to the vinyl world. Speaking of cheeses, every hear someone say "Chuck E. Cheeses?"....sounds weird.

When you're as late as I am to this party, you can't read every comment, but I feel like I can satisfy both sides with this personal experience with ERC (you pick which statement you prefer, but they are both true): (1) 100% of all ERC LPs I've ever bought -- and I buy a lot of albums for my three systems and 6 turntables and 8 tonearms and 12 cartridges!! -- has been plagued by pops/ticks and high levels of surface noise, even after multiple baths in my KL Audio, leading me to conclude that there were some unacceptable levels of dust in one stage of the pressing process, or (2) I bought one ERC (Everybody Digs Bill Evans) for a gazillion dollars; it was sealed, packaged perfectly, just lovely. A few tracks are stellar. But, unfortunately, most of it is unlistenable due to high levels of pops/ticks/surface noise. That's a shame, but one of the reasons we enjoy this hobby is that, without the disappointments, the "achievements" are so much less thrilling.

In any event, as much as I'd like to give ERC another shot, and as much as I want to give any maker of LPs the benefit of the doubt they deserve for trying to get us the best possible LPs, at a certain price point you forfeit that benefit of doubt and people are entitled to expect unqualified excellence. Moreover, at a certain price, the definition of "error" gets broader. The market of serious buyers will decide whether a 3% catastrophic error rate is acceptable, but if my professional error rate was that high I'd be unemployed.

First off, I loved the video and I applaud you both for taking part in it. Thank you Chad for bringing them together. I've been a huge fan of Michael Fremer since the day he started writing for Stereophile and of Esposito for a few years now because I like his shoot out videos.
Round One: IMHO Esposito, on the mater of Lacquers, spoke more out of rhetoric than actual fact, Fremer physically proved otherwise, end of round....
Round two: ERC QC, Well how hard is it to physically, visually inspect 300 Lps? They can't play every album but they should look at every copy very closely for that price. As for the split seam, shit happens in shipping that they can't or shouldn't be held responsible for. End of round two.
My results: Round One: Fremer! Round Two: Split (Seam) Decision.
At the end of it all, it's really up to the individual what they think is good value for their money. 90% of the people think we're nut's just for loving vinyl and 90% of the vinyl buying public think we're nuts for spending more than $30 for ANY pressing. (Not my opinion), but I think its that's the truth.( Me I keep searching for the best copy I can afford). Which is why I love both the Mikes for fighting for great quality vinyl for guys like me. Thank you both! (Do you know Esposito wont sell those horrible European reissues in his store(we all know the ones)
So like a great American once said, Can't we all just get along...

on that talk. I own most of AP Ultratapes. All of them are fantastic. I also own a lot of ERC-vinyl (from times, when the titles have not been sold out immediately). I for sure will go for the Love Supreme on Ultratape! I expect Analog Heaven.

We need some new content, stat!!